Dr. Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics for Treating Mental Disorders
This episode I discuss medical research on psychedelic compounds with Dr. Matthew Johnson, Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. We discuss the biology and medical clinical-trial uses of psilocybin, MDMA, ayahuasca, DMT, and LSD. Dr. Johnson teaches us what the clinical trials in his lab are revealing about the potential these compounds hold for the treatment of depression, addiction, trauma, eating disorders, ADHD, and other disorders of the mind. Dr. Johnson describes a typical psychedelic experiment in his laboratory, start to finish, including the conditions for optimal clinical outcomes. And he explains some of the potential hazards and common misconceptions and pitfalls related to psychedelic medicine. Dr. Johnson explains flashbacks, the heightened risks of certain people and age groups using psychedelics and the ever evolving legal and pharmaceutical industry landscape surrounding psychedelics. Dr. Johnson also explains how the scientific study of psychedelics is likely to set the trajectory of psychiatric medicine in the years to come. Dr. Johnson is among a small handful of researchers who have pioneered the clinical study of these powerful compounds. He has unprecedented insight into how they can be woven into other psychiatric treatments, changing ones sense of self and of reality.
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Links:
Dr. Johnson’s Website at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine – https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/johnson
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Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introducing Dr. Matthew Johnson
00:02:10 Supporting Sponsors
00:06:40 ‘Psychedelics’ Defined
00:14:09 Hallucinations, Synesthesia, Altered Space-Time Perception
00:19:56 Serotonin & Dopamine
00:23:50 Ketamine & Glutamate
00:28:00 An Example Psychedelic Experiment
00:37:30 ‘Letting Go’ with Psychedelics
00:44:10 Our Mind’s Eye
00:48:00 Redefining Your Sense of Self
00:58:56 Exporting Psychedelic Learnings to Daily Life
01:04:36 Flashbacks
01:12:10 Ayahuasca, & ASMR, Kundalini Breathing
01:15:54 MDMA, DMT
01:26:00 Dangers of Psychedelics, Bad Trips, Long-Lasting Psychosis
01:38:15 Micro-Dosing
01:56:45 Risks for Kids, Adolescents & Teenagers; Future Clinical Trials
02:03:40 Legal Status: Decriminalization vs. Legalization vs. Regulation
02:18:35 Psychedelics for Treating Concussion & Traumatic Brain Injury
02:27:45 Shifting Trends in Psychedelic Research, Academic Culture
02:44:23 Participating in a Clinical Trial, Online Survey Studies, Breathwork
02:50:38 Conclusions, Subscribing & Supporting the HLP, Supplements
Please note that The Huberman Lab Podcast is distinct from Dr. Huberman’s teaching and research roles at Stanford University School of Medicine. The information provided in this show is not medical advice, nor should it be taken or applied as a replacement for medical advice. The Huberman Lab Podcast, its employees, guests and affiliates assume no liability for the application of the information discussed.
Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac – https://www.blabacphoto.com
25 Comments
Amazing conversation! Two world-class scientists. Two world-class beards.
1:40:59
Anyone "shooting for something like 10 milligrams" or 10-20 milligrams of LSD most definitely should not do that.
I appreciate his work, but Matthew Johnson should have better explained the catch-22 of needing double-blind placebo studies for microdosing psilocybin. What if we demanded that of coffee studies?
Related to the conversation at 17:20 to 19:20, if an adult has lived their entire life in a reality where doors do not melt, they cannot taste music, and all of a sudden they are exposed to these new experiences, it could be the ones who were attempting to fly or enter a painting were simply experimenting with this newfound reality. "If a door can melt, if I can taste music, can I enter this painting?" This can also mix with a person's personal belief system. A Christian might experiment with an attempt to walk on water or move a mountain. Someone influenced by Alice in Wonderland more apt to attempt to enter a painting or nibble different foods to see their effects.
I didn't hear it mentioned of how there will almost certainly be a pushback in certain areas from the FDA against legalization and decriminalization simply because anti-depressants are a HUGE money maker in the US and Big Pharma isn't going to want a massive drop in profits if MDMA or Psilocybin are found to be hugely affective against depression and PTSD….in 2022 the drug market size for anti-depressants was 6.9 billion dollars and was ranked as 3rd largest selling pharmaceutical…they will lobby to the death to keep them schedule 1 and as illegal as possible.
I just wanted to comment about my experience with ketamine because I think it might be misrepresented by Dr. Matthew Johnson in this video. I’m not trying to hate, his field of research obviously isn’t ketamine, however I want to better represent it.
With that said, here’s my story.
I was depressed as a teenager and young adult, experimented with many illicit substances more than I probably should’ve been. I had been suicidal for a few years and tried so many things to feel better. I mean virtually all classic psychedelics and they made some changes but not enough to really help. Then I started using a lot of ketamine for a while and things got better for about a half a year after I stopped. Then everything came back. Tried all sorts of things again and about a half a year later found some more ketamine. I did it nearly everyday for about a month and I wasn’t suicidal anymore. Ever since then things have been good. Life has its ups and downs but I cope. And I don’t abuse drugs like I used to. I plan on using psychedelics one day in the distant future once I’m able to fully integrate what they taught me and I’m where I want to be in life. For now it’s one step in front of the other.
It’s been three and half years since the last time I did ketamine. It saved my life and I’m thankful I’m alive everyday.
Them eyes never lie chico😂
Psychedelics are a bandaid. The real integration happens in sobriety after the confusion from the hype is gone. Ayahuasca retreats are not safe.
With the utmost respect and as a sincere admirer, Dr. Huberman, your recent comments about "life coaching" and the question regarding ethnobotonists sparked some reflection in me.
I'm curious about your perspective on individuals who have facilitated improvements in people's lives, especially in areas where randomized controlled trials may not be feasible due to financial constraints or a general lack of interest.
Do you believe that efficacy must be scientifically proven to be considered valid? We've all witnessed shifts in understanding and even in science itself over time.
Your work has profoundly impacted me, and I remain a devoted fan. Still, I'm eager to hear your thoughts on those outside the traditional realms of PhDs, medical doctors, or licensed practitioners who nonetheless contribute positively to others' well-being, especially when conventional methods fall short.
Thank you for your insights and continued inspiration. 🧠💪🏽
It’s not huge but it is thick
Hubes will bussit wide open for a real one
please stop calling them gooks
I didn’t realize mommy milkers can prevent cancer, thanks!
go band for band w me coward
Shocking these two do not speak with Native Americans, we have been using these substances for time immemorial.
Can anyone speak to the efficacy of micro-dosing? None of the official studies have shown it effective.
If you have ever 1 mushroom or even a half of one a real blue stem sap you would not talk this shit
I watched the whole interview on shroom and I tripped much better than expected!!lol
Dr Johnson mentiones there is no difference in dosage:weight ratio among different weights and you mentioned brain size does not change too much from people one size to another. Would IQ be a determinating factor? Would higher brain activity process the drug quicker or more intensely? or would the higher brain activity undermine the stimulus recieved from psilocybin?
PLEASE HELP US!! Our 18 year old grandson has been through so much trauma in his short life. He's being treated by two psychiatrist but to date there's VERY little improvement. What mushrooms do you sell for this? We need real help. Thank you
Now some peak human dialogue about my all time favourite: drugs. Go figure
I bet that cyborgs will be fully equiped with endorphine receptors and emitters for top tier level secrecy. At least that's the picture the voices in head are painting me. Religious people tell me that's the god(s). Some so end level human beeings from the past, present and future that their legacy still lives
Doing drugs is Television for god(s). Everyone enjoys a lil giggle from time to time. I happily volunteer for that 4sure. Trust is the best solvent. Better then alc even
I have a question -Can someone with generalised epilepsy try LSD and mushrooms? If yes, what dosage would you suggest?@andrewhuberman
Im opening up🙌